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If Eve sinned by having sex with Lucifer, how did Adam become involved in the sin?

I am rather new to this topic and have a lot of questions.  My first question is how did Adam sin if the original sin was an act of illicit union between Eve and Lucifer?

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Judith

I cover this in my book. The act of eating the fruit too as done by Adam can in my opinion involve 1 of 2 things:

1) that either Adam copulated with Satan as a hemaphroditic being meaning that the act was not necessarily homosexual as angels are both gendered but that he did have sex with Satan or the one I lean more too 2) that Adam had sex with Eve after having watched and been witness to her having sex with Satan resulting in her pregnancy with first Cain by Satan and then Able by Adam. What does everyone else think?

I concur with this Zen. 

I missed this the first time I read this post but I agree with #2 making the most sense. The fruit was lust that s.a.tan "shared" with Eve and then Adam partook. Defintitely agree about Cain being the offspring of s.a.tan, then Abel being of Adam. That to me makes the most sense especially in light of what Eve said as it is written in scripture where she says that YHWH gave her another (Seth) to "replace" or make up for the loss of Abel.. And....even YHWH's own words to Cain just before He banished him.

 

 

I had never considered option 2 in your proposal above. Since I believe that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed not so much because the homosexuality that was ramped in their society, but because of the acceptance of the society of that lifestyle as a whole. Therefore, I too lean towards the second option you have presented.

Adam's sin was that he did not repeat the warning that the :Lord had given to him, to his wife and instead of stopping or at least voicing opposition to the seduction of Eve, his wife by Satan.  Some say that Adam also fornicated with the serpent but I tend to think that he repeated what he witnessed with Eve, which resulted in her becoming pregnant with twins.  A friend recently made a good point stating he thought they were twins because they came before the Lord with offering at the same time meaning they could both have been the same age.

 

What does the group think?

How does two or more people going before the Lord with an offering at the same time mean they are all the same age or even twins ? I don't understand why two brothers of different ages could not go before the Lord together with an offering at the same time.

I am not saying either way whether they were or not but my friend referenced that as a possibility of them being the same age.

Or... this thought just came to me. He did have sex with Eve and with Satan. Perhaps Satan changed himself into a beautiful female or being to seduce Adam and Adam fornicated with him that way too ? Which could explain the sin of homosexuality a burning  desire of one man for another. The sin was  Adam may very well have had sexual relations with Satan as Satan was a hermaphrodite. 

Does having sex give one insight or gain of knowledge of good or evil? I would say no unless one would equate pleasure with knowledge. I think the serpent planted his seed when the woman was most vulnerable, that being after she ate of the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil (TKGE). There are many naturally growing plants that when consumed create a psychdellic euphoria (ie. Peyote) that simulates passing from one dimension to another through the mind. I believe this is what happend to the man and the woman when they consumed the "fruit". Much like several eastern mystical religions today that practice transcendental medetation through chanting and consuming mind-altering drugs I believe this was the experience that the man and the woman had with the TKGE. The serpent seeing the woman in a vulnerable state then took advantage of the situation and planted his "seed", the man was helpless to prevent the act from occuring.

If we take a step back we can see that the commandment from God was given to the man only (possibly to the woman, but scripture is silent on that) does it make sense that God is commanding the man not to have sex with the TKGE? Jah always has a "moral reason why" behind each of His commandments, what is the moral reason why with this command? Obviously when Jah gave the instruction to the man there was no risk of reproduction taking place, but there is the risk of TKGE imparting knowledge to the man through unacceptable means. Just as parents we guard our children from viewing or reading things that are beyond their current understanding (for instance sex ed. at age 5 or firing a weapon at age 3) Jah wanted to impart knowledge and wisdom to His creatures on His time frame, they weren't ready. Jah says "knock and it shall be opened, seek and ye shall find, ask and it shall be given..." does this sound like a God who doesn't want to share knowledge with His creation? He wanted to be the one to impart knowledge and wisdom, but through disobedience the man and woman acted outside the Will of Jah and as a result the woman was left vulnerable.

This I believe is the sin of the man.

Charlie

 

I agree with your comment here and that's why I never claim the tree as being sex but what lead to death and incarnation as referenced in Genesis 3.  I includec in my book an account from the Kolbrin bible which tends to also lend credence to what you are saying here.  I'll include it below, tell me what you think:

 

About the land of The Children of God was the wasteland where Yoslings, called The Children of Zumat, which
means They Who Inherit Death, dwelt. Amongst these, Namtenigal, the wily hunter, was the most wise and
cunning; he alone was unafraid of The Children of God and he alone dared enter the Gardenland.
In the days when Estartha was teaching, Namtenigal often came to hear her words and The Children of God
were not displeased, for teaching the wild men about them was a duty with which they had been charged.
Namtenigal, therefore, participated in their rites but could not partake of the elixir from the Gwinduiva, because
this was forbidden. While it gave health and strength to The Children of God, safeguarding them from the
sicknesses of the Yoslings, if given to others it caused a wasting away. It was also altogether forbidden for any
of The Children of God to mate with the Yoslings, for this was deemed to be the most unforgivable of sins.
Now, the wily one learned much from Estartha and in the fullness of time brought his own son to her and he
became as her son, living in her house and forsaking the ways of his people. Estartha called him Lewid the
Lightbringer, for it was her intention that he should be taught the ways of those who walked in light, that he
might in time enlighten his own people.
Lewid grew up tall and handsome, he was quick to learn and became wise. He was also a man of the chase,
strong and enduring, a hunter of renown. But there were times when the call of his people was strong, then he
would go out furtively into the night to indulge in their dark rituals. Thus he became knowledgeable in the ways
of the flesh and in the carnal indulgences of the body.
Dadam became a servant of the Sacred Enclosure where the misty veil between the realms could be penetrated,
for all those having the blood of Aruah had twinsight, an ability to see wraiths and sithfolk, ansis and
spiritbeings, all the things of the Otherworld, not clearly but as through a veil.
Beside the place called Gisar was a pleasant parkland with trees of every kind and a stream, also thickets of
flowering bushes and all manner of plants growing lushly. It was the custom of Maeva to wander there in the
sunshine and Lewid also went there; so it came about that they met among the trees. Maeva knew the man but
had shunned him in the past, now she saw he was handsome, possessed of many attractions, so her foot was
stayed and she did not run away.
As the days passed they dallied longer together and Lewid talked of things Maeva had not heard before. She felt
a stirring in her blood but did not respond or heed his temptations, because of the things which were forbidden.
So Lewid went to the Moonmother, wise woman of the Yoslings, and telling of his desires beseeched her to help
him. The Moonmother gave him two apples containing a vile substance which they had drawn through their
stalks; this Lewid gave to Maeva who then became helpless in his hands.
They met again after this, for Maeva became enamoured towards Lewid, but it happened that she became ill
with a strange sickness and was afraid. Then Dadam became ill and Lewid also, and Lewid said to the woman,
"You must obtain the pure essences from within the Sacred Enclosure, and Setina, the Moonmother, will prepare
an elixir which will cure us". This he said because none of his kind had ever been able to obtain the Sacred
Substances, though they had always coveted what had been denied them. Now, because of her frailty, the
woman was pliable in his hands and Lewid seized the opportunity.
To achieve his ends Lewid gave Maeva a potion which had been prepared by the Moonmother and she
administered this to Dadam and those with him, by guile and deceit, so that they fell asleep. While they slept
Maeva stole from the Sacred Substances and took them to Lewid who gave them to the Moonmother, and she
made a brew.
Part of this was given to Maeva and the rest was drunk by the Yoslings, from their awful ankital during their
night rites. When the morning came they were all smitten with grievous pains, and before the sun set that day all
the Yoslings were stricken with a sickness such as they had not known before.
Maeva took what had been given to her and finding Dadam laid low in his bed gave him a draught from her
vessel, though she had to use womanly wiles to get him to drink it. She drank the remainder and they both slept.
But when they awoke in the morning both were suffering pains and this was something they had not known
before. Dadam said to the woman, "What have you done, for what has happened to us cannot be unless the
things which are forbidden have been done". The woman replied, "Lord, I was tempted and I fell, I have done
that which is forbidden and unforgivable".
Dadam said, "I am bound by duty to do certain things, but first let us go into the Gisar to the place called
Bethkelcris, where I will seek enlightenment". So they went there together and stood before the shrine beneath
the Tree of Wisdom. There they were filled with an inflowing vision, seeing themselves as they were and as they
should have been, and they were ashamed. He because he had not followed the proper path of a man and she
because of her falsity. There, in the reflecting mist, the contamination of the woman was revealed, and the man's
heart shriveled within him like a flower licked by flame.
Then they saw a great Spiritbeing materializing in the reflecting mist and he said to them, "Woe to you and your
house, for the greatest of evils has befallen the race of The Children of God and it is defiled. The heritage of
Kadamhapa is lost. The fetid flow defiling the woman results from the incompatible intermingling, but it is not
all, for sicknesses and diseases are also generating from the ferments of the impure implantation".
Dadam said, "The fault is with the woman, wherefore should I suffer?" The Spiritbeing replied, "Because you
two are now as one the conkerworms of disease and sickness strike both equally, but you shall not again defile
this place. Henceforth, the misty veil becomes an impenetrable barrier severing our two realms from each other,
so they can no longer be easily spanned. Between us there will now be no means of communication. Henceforth,
man and woman, fated to unite in love divine, shall be divided and set apart, though ever yearning reunion. They
may cleave one to the other, seeking the unity which will rekindle the flame, but unless their efforts transcend
the limitations of earthly things they will be in vain. The spirit of man is now severed from the whole and cast
again into unconsciousness, and it too shall long for reunion with the whole. The spark shall seek to return to the
fire, for otherwise it becomes nothing. The web of fate is rewoven and the paths of destiny remade, the design of
life is redrawn; again the progression begins in ignorance, birth and death, pain and pleasure, joy and sorrow,
success and failure, love and hate, peace and war, all the light and shade, the many hues making the splendidly
intricate pattern of life on Earth. This is a new beginning but a beginning not in purity and unencumbered, but
one already weighted with debts and burdens".
The Spiritbeing continued, "Enough wickedness has been wrought by your willfulness and disobedience, for the
decrees forbidding certain things were for your own benefit. Immortality was nearly within your reach, but had
you achieved this you would have brought an even more grievous evil upon yourselves and your inheritors, for
freed from servitude to change, you and they would have been unable to progress".
The Children of God were driven out of the gardenland by Spiritbeings, and then guardians were set at its gates
so none could re-enter. Then it was withdrawn beyond the misty veil, the waters ceased to flow and the fertility
departed, only a wilderness remained. The Children of God went to dwell in the land of Amanigel, which is
beyond the mountains of Mashur by the sea of Dalemuna.
From this time onward man fashioned his own spiritlikeness. Some, who were loathsome in aspect even unto
themselves, went apart and were mercifully veiled in dark depths, and they said among themselves, "Let us
dwell here in the darkness and prepare a place for others like ourselves, so that when they follow they abide here
and join us". Thus were the Dark Regions formed and inhabited by demons who are nought but the hideously
fashioned spirits of evil men.
These things have been written into the record. In Siboit they used to say this was the manner of man's making,
"God sent His creating Craftsman Spirit down to Earth and the reflection of The One was drawn into a spiritless
body, and this became the heart of man".
These are the words written by Thonis of Myra in Ludicia in his day:-
"You ask me what is man and I answer: He is life becoming aware of itself. He is the intangible knowing the
tangible, Spirit in matter, fire in water. When this first happened, none remembers and only the old folktales
remain. There was the beginning and then the garden, and it was in this garden man found himself; before this
he was not free, being one with everything about him. As he could not disobey, good and evil could not be, they
were non-existent".
"Man became free through awareness of himself, and with this knowledge denied any kinship with the beast. As
he was no longer in harmonious relationship with things of the Earth, he became discontented, dissatisfied and
restless, he wanted to belong but felt his place of belonging was not there. He had been reborn as a mangod, and
therefore it is truly said that man was born of Earth and Spirit, under a tree, the symbol of life, and in a garden".
"There the eyes of the man and woman were opened and, being above the beasts, they knew they were different
and set apart from all else that breathed. They separated themselves, being now ashamed of their state and
strangers to each other. The carnal satisfaction of lesser creatures now no longer sufficed, they had lost contact
with the Source of Love; but, though knowing something was lacking, knew not what. They had fallen into
carnal knowledge which only man can know, for only he feels the reproach of divinity. They were removed from
The Garden of Content by an inhalation of the Divine Substance and could not return because of the barrier
between man an non-man".
Kamelik has written: "The entwined were cut apart and since that day have never known content. They wander
restlessly ever seeking to unite again and together find the jewel which is lost to Earth forever".
Lupisis has written: "This first woman, who came from the void, is the eternally glorified goddess, the inspirer
of hearts, the ideal of womanhood honoured by all men, the priestess at the shrines of delicacy and tenderness.
She was the ideal woman who, because of man's nature, is always tempted by his twinshade, the beast in his
form. If the beast triumphs and she falls, the ideal becomes enshrouded in winding cloths of disillusionment, and
something is lost to the heart of a man".
These words are also there: "They did not partake of wisdom, and fruit from the tree of knowledge is bitter. Men
are denied their true birthright. The fall of man was a fall from loving contact with God into material carnality.
The Soul that had shared the consciousness of God fell into unconsciousness by becoming ensnared in matter.
The fall severed man from the source of his spiritual sustenance; thereafter his efforts were to struggle back. In
his blind groping for God, after the fall he discovered demons and found it easier to worship them than to
continue the search".
"God is always waiting, man has only to look up, but it is easier to go down the hill than to climb it. It is easier
for man's spiritual beliefs to degenerate than to evolve. Who among men knows the truth and can write with
certain knowledge? Would not this certainty be against the Law? No man was there at the beginning to see and
write, but of one thing alone we can be sure, The Creating God knows how and why, and could the acts of One
so great be without purpose? - The Kolbrin Bible

Thank you for posting this.  To be honest I know very little about the origin of the Kolbrin Bible, what language it was written in, who wrote it, who translated it or whether it was divinely inspired or just one man's imagination.  My first read through it seems like it belongs in a Lord of the Rings script, that doesn't mean that its not valid, just that I am naturally skeptical when it comes to scriptural parallels.  I'm reading a book right now titled: DMT The Spirit Molecule by Rick Strassman, M.D. (it appears that at least at the time of this writing Dr. Strassman was not a Christian) while reading this book it seems very likely that the "fruit" from the TKGE could have been something similar to DMT.  I do believe that Genesis 2 - 3 is simultaneously literal and allegorical in that the events did in fact happen, but there is symbolism involved.  Having a background as an auditor I tend to use a heirarchy of guidance with scripture.  I think obviously canon scripture is the highest level of guidance, Historical contemporaneous writings (ie Josephus, Philo, Herodutus) would come next, followed by apocraphal writings considered for canonization, followed by commentary from early church leaders such as Jerome, Augustine, Eusibius, and more recent scholars like Bullinger and Spurgeon.  I must say that I have never heard mention of the Kolbrin Bible in any text I have read, but it is nonetheless intriguing.  I am currently engaged in teaching an adult class on Genesis, if you are interested I post the lecture notes at: www.royredbiblestudy.blogspot.com this is an institutional "church" setting so I try to keep the controversy at a moderate level since my kids go to school here and I'm not yet ready to be excommunicated (however, my moderate level seems to be rather high for the class participants, but they keep coming back). 

 

I think from reading scripture its faily obvious that we have two distinct seedline, is it important to know how the two seedline came into being? interesting, yes but probably not essential.  The topics I would like to eventually get to is what does it mean for us today? Who are the "serpent seed" today? Who are we? Can the nature of a tare be changed to wheat?  Most people can't trace their history back more than 3-4 generations...amazing!!!  Did Jah fulfill His promise to Abraham?  What about all of the prophecies Jacob blessed the 12 patriarchs with at the end of Genesis that were to be in effect in the last days? Who are those who call themselves Jews and are not in Revelation 2:9 and 3:9 but are the synagogue of Satan?  These are the questions that raise eyebrows and labels are applied to keep one from seeking truth through intimidation. 

 

Interesting discussion, I hope to continue the dialogue.

Charlie

 

I am in no way saying or claiming the Kolbrin inspired, I just thought you would be interested in reading the part of the text because of its reference to the tree as being a drug and also because it like many other sources references Cain as being a son of impure intermingling.  If you missed that read it again.  I think it very important.

 

Z

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